Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by deyana on Jan 8, 2023 13:24:54 GMT -5
From Dave Ramsey:
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Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by deyana on Jan 8, 2023 13:25:54 GMT -5
I wonder if we can discuss what is being said above in that quote by David Ramsey?
I will be back soon, as I do have questions...
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 8, 2023 13:44:18 GMT -5
I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends. I look at people I have known all my life so hate-filled that they agree with opinions they would never express as their own. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone. You can't justify this insanity. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind. I can speak to this from personal experience. As many here know one of my brothers and his family no longer speak to me because of Politics. Our country has become angry and violent and it does feel like we are losing our mind. Somehow it’s un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America. People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President. Universities that advocate equality, discriminate against Asian-Americans in favor of African-Americans. Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now. Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights. People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves. After legislating gender, if a dude pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him. It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it’s an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquiries about it. People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees. Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you’d better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated. Agree with every single point here.. Well I agree with the entire thing. If we don't wake up soon there will be nothing to wake up to.
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 8, 2023 15:37:37 GMT -5
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Date Joined: Apr 30, 2020 17:59:21 GMT -5
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Post by mikemarshall3 on Jan 8, 2023 16:54:45 GMT -5
We experienced this during Brexit and so did many of our friends and family. I and my wife voted to leave and as a result her own sister 'unfriended' her on Facebook.
Numerous people (in person, on the media and online) who voted to remain have consistently described those who voted to leave as 'uneducated,''stupid,''racist,''xenophobic' and similar epithets.
Now I understand that people feel passionate on issues.
The trouble is that their passion can sometimes blind them both to facts that they prefer to deny and can make them dogmatic, intolerant and judgemental, regarding those who disagree with them as 'evil' or 'malicious' when the plain truth is that they simply take another point of view.
IMO Britain and America - and various other countries, particularly France and Spain - have governments that have lost touch with the interests of the people. It goes beyond party politics and even that has become so polarised that I have heard complete nonsense being talked. For example a friend of ours is a long-time member of the Labour Party and he honestly believes that Tories are evil and that anyone who votes Conservative is either stupid or evil.
On the other hand we have another friend who has always (except once) voted Conservative who appears to believe that the Labour Party is some far left bunch of hippies out to destroy everyone.
And (to judge at least from the MSM and social media) in America the situation is even worse.
I have no faith in politicians at the best of times - nor in either the MSM or social media - but in recent years the level of conscious lying and the brazen propagandising has descended to a new low.
As for the original article I can only assume that David Ramsey has never lived in a socialist country and has no idea what socialism means or he would not be so stupid as to assume that America IS one.
I have Russian friends who were born and raised under the Soviet Union and Polish friends who grew up when their country was still under Communist control. All have emigrated to Britain and occasionally people have discussed politics with them. They are often surprised by their response -'we have lived under socialism and we do not want it in our country.' They may be critical of Britain and its governments but NOT because they believe they are socialists.
On the TG issue I take a libertarian POV. If men want to pretend to be women that is their right (as it is with the far smaller number of women who want to be men.) But no amount of wishing can change biology. Women simply ARE born with a vagina just as a man is born with a penis.
Let the TGs present themselves as they wish; the problem is when they display intolerance themselves. Feminists in particular are increasingly worried that transgenderism is turning into misogyny. J K Rowling has received death threats for expressing her belief that only those born with a vagina are true women (a view I share.) In a number of cases male criminals have declared themselves TG, been transferred to a women's prison and proceeded to rape inmates.
There has to be a line beyond which the desire for self-expression, self-identification, call it what you will, must NOT be allowed to infringe upon the rights of others.
Just as misogyny and misandry are wrong; just as homophobia and heterophobia are wrong; in the same way both transphobia and cisphobia are wrong.
But the bulk of the article struck me as verging on paranoid fantasy and I felt myself wondering if the author was the type of person who believes 'The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion' to be sober fact rather than a fantasy dreamed up by an anti-Semitic Russian aristocrat and then used by the Tsarist secret police as an excuse for pogroms and later by the Nazis as an excuse for genocide. To me Ramsey appears to live in the same delusional universe where every fault is magnified and every problem attributed to a malevolent secret conspiracy.
I think it is only fair to say that I have come across this way of thinking among people of all political persuasions but it is most prevalent on the far left and far right.
America was built on the values of the Enlightenment - freedom, tolerance, fairness and compassion. It is true that those values have often been more honoured in name than deed but that is true of most nations that broadly share that philosophy. Nevertheless they remain the touchstone by which a civilised society has to be measured and IMO Ramsey is as guilty as the people he rails against of despising those values.
The US is partly a special case because its 'conservative' spokespeople tend to be facing in two incompatible directions at once. On the one hand they swallow whole the Nietzschean nonsense of Ayn Rand; on the other they swallow whole the 'High Catholic' nonsense of Bill Buckley. It is interesting to compare Buckley with Joseph de Maistre. In all essential respects their opinions are the same. Let us also not forget that both Rand and Buckley were enthusiastic and active supporters of Joseph McCarthy so their protestations of 'libertarianism'- particularly on Rand's part - are utterly hollow and, frankly, dishonest.
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 8, 2023 17:24:43 GMT -5
My Irish ancestors had it even worse. I've traced some of Southern heritage and it looks like none of them I have been able to research were plantation owners. As have I and I have traced all the way back to the mayflower. None of my family of them owned slaves, and I have Native American roots as well, so I ain't paying anything..
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Date Joined: Aug 24, 2017 14:02:33 GMT -5
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Post by 🦍MAXX>ⓤ on Jan 8, 2023 18:07:04 GMT -5
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 8, 2023 18:17:11 GMT -5
Is there a 3 drink minimum for this show??? Hell you'll need more than 3
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Date Joined: Aug 24, 2017 14:02:33 GMT -5
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Post by 🦍MAXX>ⓤ on Jan 8, 2023 18:19:57 GMT -5
Is there a 3 drink minimum for this show??? Hell you'll need more than 3 Well me and the old liver will try and keep up...
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Date Joined: Aug 24, 2017 14:02:33 GMT -5
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Post by 🦍MAXX>ⓤ on Jan 8, 2023 18:27:23 GMT -5
Not to add to the inquiries but I need to ask something...If a friend or a family member decides to cut you out of their life because of difference of political opinions were they really that good of friend to begin with???
Said before there is a sign behind bar that tells everyone to leave their politics and religion at the door and that goes for my home as well...
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Date Joined: Dec 29, 2022 22:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by RichardInTN on Jan 8, 2023 23:35:29 GMT -5
Most of this stuff is wrong. Universities that advocate equality, discriminate against Asian-Americans in favor of African-Americans. This for example. It doesn't happen. In the case before the supreme court, Students for Far Admissions v. Harvard, where it is claimed that Asians got discriminated against, Asians we 25 percent of the admitted students, African Americans 15 percent. It actually DOES happen. From the FACTS presented in the very lawsuit you mention (and undisputed by Harvard): " Harvard maintains that classroom diversity is essential to achieving its educational mission. To achieve such diversity, Harvard considers race in the admission process and alleges that no other race-neutral alternative exists."[ SOURCE] The rest of your "rebuttals" are similarly disprovable.
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Date Joined: Dec 29, 2022 22:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by RichardInTN on Jan 8, 2023 23:40:28 GMT -5
My Irish ancestors had it even worse. I've traced some of Southern heritage and it looks like none of them I have been able to research were plantation owners. As have I and I have traced all the way back to the mayflower. None of my family of them owned slaves, and I have Native American roots as well, so I ain't paying anything.. I've traced my roots as well... and similarly, like you and @naz, none of my family owned slaves either. (I can't claim Native American roots like either of you, but I can and do claim Irish roots... some of whom were "not well treated" shall we say.)
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Date Joined: Dec 29, 2022 22:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by RichardInTN on Jan 9, 2023 6:15:54 GMT -5
It actually DOES happen. From the FACTS presented in the very lawsuit you mention (and undisputed by Harvard): " Harvard maintains that classroom diversity is essential to achieving its educational mission. To achieve such diversity, Harvard considers race in the admission process and alleges that no other race-neutral alternative exists."[ SOURCE] The rest of your "rebuttals" are similarly disprovable. No it doesn't. When there are 10 percent more Asians at Harvard than blacks, Asians are NOT being discriminated against for blacks. And if race is taken into consideration, Asian is a race and so are whites. You can't disprove squat. All Ramsey did was write a bunch of white grievance garbage. Asians actually ARE being discriminated against. I know that with your racism you can't see reality... but it's there if you WANT to see it. All you are writing is a bunch of easily disproven bullshit. Read this and weep: A study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research and reported on the NBC.com website on September 20, 2019, revealed this: “Using publicly released reports, we examine the preferences Harvard gives for recruited athletes, legacies, those on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff (ALDCs). Among white admits, over 43% are ALDC. Among admits who are African American, Asian American, and Hispanic, the share is less than 16% each. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs. Removing preferences for athletes and legacies would significantly alter the racial distribution of admitted students, with the share of white admits falling and all other groups rising or remaining unchanged.”
Daniella Silva, Study on Harvard finds 43 percent of white students are legacy, athletes, related to donors or staff, www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-harvard-finds-43-percent-white-students-are-legacy-athletes-n1060361Peter Arcidiacono, Josh Kinsler, Tyler Ransom, National Bureau Of Economic Research, Legacy And Athlete Preferences At Harvard,Working Paper 26316, www.nber.org/papers/w26316Here, we see that whites are provided entry by a plethora of other preferences they would not qualify for if not for connections they have due to their race. The study shows that Asians are not adversely impacted because Harvard must admit blacks and Hispanics that are presumably unqualified. Instead, we see white ALDC students who would not qualify under any other circumstance who get accepted at more than double the percentage of Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans who meet the same criteria. The everybody is getting passed over for blacks because of AA is a long worn out racist claim. It is false on its face since whites have benefitted most from the policy. In this case the only people Asians are being discriminated against for are white legacy students, as are blacks hispanics, native Americans and Pacific Islanders. That's all bullshit as well. AA is a backwards racist dis-equalizer that actually harms black people while it takes opportunities away from whites. Don't tell me it doesn't do that because I am one of those whites that opportunities were taken from in favor of lesser qualified blacks (and no, before you get your racism all in a tizzy, I'm not saying that they were "lesser qualified" because they were black... they were lesser qualified because they had lower scores and lower abilities as proven by their actual output). Even though they were lesser qualified, they got opportunities instead of me.
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Date Joined: Dec 29, 2022 22:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by RichardInTN on Jan 9, 2023 6:27:49 GMT -5
I've traced my roots as well... and similarly, like you and @naz , none of my family owned slaves either. (I can't claim Native American roots like either of you, but I can and do claim Irish roots... some of whom were "not well treated" shall we say.) What your family didn't own doesn't mean a damn thing since this is a case against the government. Your family benefitted from Jim Crow, mine was hurt. And that affected the quality of life I had growing up. I had teachers that began their careers during Jim Crow. I worked for people who grew up or started their business career during Jim Crow. You guys seem to have amnesia about that and only want to run your mouths about slavery so you can say it's not your fault. But there are people in this forum with the same racial attitudes that whites had in the 17 and 1800's. This is about what government did and if any member of your family(or anyone elses) wrote legislation, helped pass legislation, enacted local ordinances or referendums, voted in favor of any such legislation that denied rights to people of color, or for politicians that did, they participated in denying people of color equal opportunity.. My family didn't benefit from Jim Crow. Sorry to disappoint you. And no one in my family has ever been in politics. Until the 60's my family was mostly dishwashers, general laborers, or other menial service work... when they could get work. And the ones that weren't were women staying home with the children... occasionally taking on odd jobs like doing people's laundry. My Father was the first in my line to graduate from High School, and I was the first to graduate from any sort of college course (6 month Tech. course, not a degree course... but I graduated the full course, nonetheless... without any scholarships). I don't mention any of this as a "pity me" cry for myself... I mention it because your "pity me" cry is a load of crap. All kinds of people from all races have had it hard in their past.
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 9, 2023 10:40:18 GMT -5
As have I and I have traced all the way back to the mayflower. None of my family of them owned slaves, and I have Native American roots as well, so I ain't paying anything.. I've traced my roots as well... and similarly, like you and @naz , none of my family owned slaves either. (I can't claim Native American roots like either of you, but I can and do claim Irish roots... some of whom were "not well treated" shall we say.) I have a small amount of Cree.. a distant relative married a Cree woman. I am also German, Irish and Scottish. So yeah none of them were treated great and many still aren't. They just don't complain daily.
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 9, 2023 13:20:34 GMT -5
Bravo @naz,
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Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by deyana on Jan 9, 2023 18:32:03 GMT -5
As have I and I have traced all the way back to the mayflower. Back to 1620? Wow that is really something. Were your relatives on the ship do you know? Apparently there were only 102 passengers on board. Two of my sons have ancestry going back to about the same time, on their dad's side. They even have a coat of arms in their name descending back to France - noting nobility.!
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Date Joined: Nov 15, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Justbec on Jan 9, 2023 18:33:23 GMT -5
As have I and I have traced all the way back to the mayflower. Back to 1620? Wow that is really something. Were your relatives on the ship do you know? It said one was but I couldn't find anything that really showed actual proof. They were on my father's side. On my mother's side they came from Germany and one actually died in the Alamo.
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Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by deyana on Jan 9, 2023 18:36:23 GMT -5
There are not many that can trace their family history back that far. So that's a job well done, Pudding.
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Date Joined: Mar 14, 2016 18:48:07 GMT -5
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Post by Springschick on Jan 9, 2023 18:37:41 GMT -5
My earliest ancestor that we have traced came here via Poland in 1604. That was on my maternal grandfather's side.
All of my other ancestors are fairly new arrivals.
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