Date Joined: Oct 11, 2011 19:28:34 GMT -5
|
God
May 21, 2014 15:39:19 GMT -5
Post by romaniprincess on May 21, 2014 15:39:19 GMT -5
I might have missed it but I can't see a specific thread on God.
As on another forum I've been debating the issue with an atheist here's how I feel.
I don't 'know' that God exists but I've had signs and mystical experiences and life-changing events that have led me to believe that He does.
I don't think atheists can 'know' that God doesn't exist anymore than theists can 'know' that He does.
What do people think about this?
|
|
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2011 19:28:34 GMT -5
|
God
May 21, 2014 15:40:12 GMT -5
Post by romaniprincess on May 21, 2014 15:40:12 GMT -5
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this subject.
|
|
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2011 19:28:34 GMT -5
|
God
May 23, 2014 17:03:11 GMT -5
Post by romaniprincess on May 23, 2014 17:03:11 GMT -5
I've gone from 'believing', to being an agnostic, to an atheist. That being said, I'm not out to try and convince anyone to be like me. Everyone can make their own choice and that is fine with me. Just don't try and convert me. I might be a Christian but I don't go around trying to convert other people to my point of view. But I'm often amused that many atheists don't realise that claiming there's NO God is just as much a case of going beyond the evidence as claiming there IS one!
|
|
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
|
God
May 23, 2014 18:16:15 GMT -5
Post by deyana on May 23, 2014 18:16:15 GMT -5
I voted for -'Not really sure what to believe'. Because in all honesty, I don't know what to think about God and his (her) existence.
I have tried over the years going to Christian churches, reading the bible,and trying to make myself believe. It just didn't work. The longer I went to church and the more I learned of what the bible tell us, the more I seemed to distance myself from the perception of God. I hope I am wrong. After all we all want to feel that there is more to life than this what we have on the earth. I like to think that when we die we go to a 'higher' place, or at least our souls do. A better place, were everyone is loved and cherished and everyone is 'good'.
It's true though, how can those who do not believe be so sure? They can be no more sure that God does not exist than those who swear he does and is real.
Conclusion: I haven't a clue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 20, 2015 2:35:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 2:35:20 GMT -5
most atheists choose to not believe in god because they can't see, or touch, or feel him. those who believe in god can't see him, but, they daily see his handiwork. they DO feel him. no one can see the wind, unless it's a tornado, but, you feel it if you are in it. the same applies with god
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 20, 2015 17:59:05 GMT -5
deyana likes this
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 17:59:05 GMT -5
To me there are two different areas that people can discuss and that sometimes get at cross purposes:
One is faith and here (for me) either a person has faith or they don't and trying to discuss that is an exercise in futility. For me, I do not have that faith and have seen things this way for more than 50 years. Dialog about this (the existence of a God, Gods, the Other, or nothing) has existed as far back as we can possibly search, and that searching has been written about and formalized. Here it can be an Ontological argument, a Cosmological argument, a Teleological argument, or even Divine encounters, and it all comes down to a simple result, those with Faith cannot offer evidence of God that is acceptable to those without Faith, and those without Faith cannot offer evidence of no God that is acceptable to those with a Faith.
The other area that can be discussed is the philosophy of religion. Obviously religion is (has always been) important to people, to societies. There have been many different religions apparently each one has more than a few offshoots. Each is the way, the best way, and often the only way as seem by its members.
That which many of us are most familiar with, is Christianity. Even here there is not a singularly accepted 'Christianity' but rather a number of versions and in the early years it was a close run for Christianity to ultimately succeed. Even with the sacred writings (as exemplified by the Christian Bible) there is not a singularly accepted version, although overtime the “New Revised Standard Version” has become increasingly accepted as the most authentic representation. Even so, there still remains argument as to what should be included (there are many writings not included) and what shouldn't be included and is there consensus as to correct translations (not unexpected since the books were evolved from those speaking Aramaic, with first available writings in Greek, being translated into Latin, and into German, and into early English, and into modern English, and this doesn't address interpretations.
Leave Faith alone, but enjoy the give and take (and learning) as to the philosophy of Religion and its history.
By the way I do not recommend that anyone travel the road of Atheism.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 21, 2015 6:47:21 GMT -5
deyana likes this
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 6:47:21 GMT -5
that raises the question, why would you not recommend the road that you travel?
for the most part, what you say is true. the best proof that god exists is the fact that EVERY society, from primitive man, has recognized the existence of a power greater than themselves. it has not been something such as christianity as brought to far flung societies around the globe by missionaries. it is something that was innate in every society on its own accord
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 21, 2015 10:44:11 GMT -5
deyana likes this
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 10:44:11 GMT -5
A good question Iamjumbo.
Several reasons, but mostly people are not prepared to accept the possibility of a lack of existence of God.
Oh, do not get me wrong, we are all aware of young people who leave home, go to college and immediately become progressives and Atheists. Of course we also understand that they really haven't such a conversion and before they are 30 they will return to the beliefs of their parents. I'm not talking about such people.
There are also those are older and profess an acceptance of Atheism and are overly loud and abrasive in that asserted belief. I don't such as those either as they likely never had an understanding of a God faith and they certainly do not understand Atheism. Most of these will return to a God belief before they die.
To accept Atheism is to accept that there is no God. To fully accept the possibility that there is nothing after death. That doesn't mean that such a person lives a life of anything goes, but rather understands the reality of ethics and morals as a fundamental element of our species.
Most people have had some schooling as to an afterlife and in the back of their mind accept it as a reality, to give that up (for lack of a better phrase) is something that most people can never accept and should never try.
For the very few of us that have done so (may as much as 1% of the population) life is little different than with anyone else.
|
|
Date Joined: Mar 19, 2015 18:51:45 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 21, 2015 18:05:07 GMT -5
deyana likes this
Post by Interested Bob on Mar 21, 2015 18:05:07 GMT -5
I'm not going to get into a big debate on this subject because I know from experience that it just goes round and round in circles, and trying to get a straight answer from anyone is like trying to catch smoke in a net. I will simply state my view, and leave it at that. If anyone disagrees, fine, I'm not going to try to justify it.
I don't believe in blind faith, either for or against the existence of God, and there is no tangible evidence to base a logical decision on. The dictionary definition of an agnostic is "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God".
I am therefore by definition an agnostic.
I am not an atheist.
I have no desire to be converted.
I'm out. Have fun..... smiley-happy020
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 22, 2015 6:23:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 6:23:46 GMT -5
A good question Iamjumbo. Several reasons, but mostly people are not prepared to accept the possibility of a lack of existence of God. Oh, do not get me wrong, we are all aware of young people who leave home, go to college and immediately become progressives and Atheists. Of course we also understand that they really haven't such a conversion and before they are 30 they will return to the beliefs of their parents. I'm not talking about such people. There are also those are older and profess an acceptance of Atheism and are overly loud and abrasive in that asserted belief. I don't such as those either as they likely never had an understanding of a God faith and they certainly do not understand Atheism. Most of these will return to a God belief before they die. To accept Atheism is to accept that there is no God. To fully accept the possibility that there is nothing after death. That doesn't mean that such a person lives a life of anything goes, but rather understands the reality of ethics and morals as a fundamental element of our species. Most people have had some schooling as to an afterlife and in the back of their mind accept it as a reality, to give that up (for lack of a better phrase) is something that most people can never accept and should never try. For the very few of us that have done so (may as much as 1% of the population) life is little different than with anyone else. i understand that, but of course, the prudent man would rather believe, and find out that he's wrong, than not believe, and find out that he's wrong
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 22, 2015 12:31:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 12:31:59 GMT -5
A good question Iamjumbo. Several reasons, but mostly people are not prepared to accept the possibility of a lack of existence of God. Oh, do not get me wrong, we are all aware of young people who leave home, go to college and immediately become progressives and Atheists. Of course we also understand that they really haven't such a conversion and before they are 30 they will return to the beliefs of their parents. I'm not talking about such people. There are also those are older and profess an acceptance of Atheism and are overly loud and abrasive in that asserted belief. I don't such as those either as they likely never had an understanding of a God faith and they certainly do not understand Atheism. Most of these will return to a God belief before they die. To accept Atheism is to accept that there is no God. To fully accept the possibility that there is nothing after death. That doesn't mean that such a person lives a life of anything goes, but rather understands the reality of ethics and morals as a fundamental element of our species. Most people have had some schooling as to an afterlife and in the back of their mind accept it as a reality, to give that up (for lack of a better phrase) is something that most people can never accept and should never try. For the very few of us that have done so (may as much as 1% of the population) life is little different than with anyone else. i understand that, but of course, the prudent man would rather believe, and find out that he's wrong, than not believe, and find out that he's wrong Yes Iamjumbo, but the honest man that doesn't believe will not hypocritically say that he does believe, when he actually doesn't, just to cover the bet. One first and foremost must be honest with their self.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
God
Mar 22, 2015 13:03:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 13:03:49 GMT -5
that is a given. of course, saying that you believe, when you really don't, ain't gonna save your ass anyway
|
|
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
|
Post by deyana on Mar 22, 2015 17:51:18 GMT -5
When in the UK recently, I re-untied with an old school friend of mine. Both her parents are originally from the Caribbean. She is now a devout Christian, and asked me to come to church with her one Sunday. I went. It was a Pentecostal church, so it had a band that played out loud and clear, it was a nearly all black congregation too, and so they they were singing and dancing like I have not seen in a long time.
It was a surprisingly uplifting experience and afterwards I met the people and they were a very nice bunch. Did it make me believe more in God? hmm... not really, but it made me happy to see so many people whom the service and the church means to much. Maybe they are the lucky ones, for they have found a way to a kind of peace that - in the end - we are all looking for?
|
|
Date Joined: Sept 3, 2012 6:41:11 GMT -5
|
Post by parkerdivine on Mar 22, 2015 18:44:58 GMT -5
For me, it comes down to believing a god would not be seen nor heard and interpreted so many different ways by so many. On the one hand,his first commandments indicate an ego. I mean, if we are "children", then a god would make himself known to us all by seeing him/her/it. I just can't buy it all. Recently, the evolution of Christianity in the US has gone to the resurggence of the Christian Reconstruction movement of born again evangelicals which always sells worshiping the rich and not helping the poor. This indicates to me a weak book in the bible for some to interpret it as helping the poor and others as helping the rich. A real powerful god would not be so ambiguous.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 20:34:50 GMT -5
For me, it comes down to believing a god would not be seen nor heard and interpreted so many different ways by so many. On the one hand,his first commandments indicate an ego. I mean, if we are "children", then a god would make himself known to us all by seeing him/her/it. I just can't buy it all. Recently, the evolution of Christianity in the US has gone to the resurgence of the Christian Reconstruction movement of born again evangelicals which always sells worshiping the rich and not helping the poor. This indicates to me a weak book in the bible for some to interpret it as helping the poor and others as helping the rich. A real powerful god would not be so ambiguous. I hope you're not gauging your overall perception of God, Jesus, and the body of the Christian Church by watching the Religious Entertainment Programs, such as those on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network.) Those shyster televangelists are phony hucksters, pew jumpers, Bible thumpers, and all 'round conniving thieves, on a grand scale, corporate level. They cheat the U.S. Federal government (us taxpayers) out of Billions of dollars by purchasing their "tax-free" status. They prey (not pray) upon the pain inflicted, poor, lonely, sick, and desperate people around the world, and call it "Seed Faith Ministry." Send in your $eed and God will miraculously heal you and return your investment, ten fold, at a bare minimum! The charismatic, sermonizing "preachers" on TBN are consummate actors and crafty, effectively emotive liars. On the whole they are a gargantuan,"For-Profit" corporation, in every sense of the term, and only want to, daily, separate millions of people from their money; people who for one reason or another can't dress to the nines, get out and attend "regular" services at a neighborhood Church, or other brick and mortar Christian congregational building of their own, personal preference. TBN is a true Dynasty worth many Billions of dollars, whose mission is to make themselves and their carefully chosen "Partners" rich beyond reason, with "filthy lucre," per their "Prosperity Doctrine." All the main "characters" are multimillionaires. I could list two dozen, but I don't want to step on any more toes than I have already, .. if I have. evilgrin0010 Am I being judgmental about this? Why, of course I am! I enjoy informally studying human behavior and highly irregular, organized human antics of all sorts. It doesn't pay that much but I have always enjoyed this part-time pursuit or avocation. Peace, OHD
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 21:07:28 GMT -5
When in the UK recently, I re-untied with an old school friend of mine. Both her parents are originally from the Caribbean. She is now a devout Christian, and asked me to come to church with her one Sunday. I went. It was a Pentecostal church, so it had a band that played out loud and clear, it was a nearly all black congregation too, and so they they were singing and dancing like I have not seen in a long time. It was a surprisingly uplifting experience and afterwards I met the people and they were a very nice bunch. Did it make me believe more in God? hmm... not really, but it made me happy to see so many people whom the service and the church means to much. Maybe they are the lucky ones, for they have found a way to a kind of peace that - in the end - we are all looking for? I was a drummer and part-time guitarist for a gospel band for a couple of years in the 90s. It was in an Assembly of God Church. They are usually regarded as "charismatic and/or Pentecostal." We went on the road a couple of times. Anyway, after a while I caught myself looking forward to Church on Sundays and Wednesdays,'primarily' because I love to play music, especially with others. I'm being somewhat facetious but I found that, when drumming, the more I added emphasis to the beat, the rowdier (more "spirit filled") the members became. In my mind I found myself thinking things like,'This is just like the honky-tonks I used to play in with my old bar band mates! The biggest difference was, no alcoholic beverages were allowed, or at least not being served, not even real wine! So, after having an introspective look, I didn't like what I saw, and I stopped playing in Churches, altogether. If you have Christian leanings though, deyana, don't give up on it. I haven't and I have no regrets. I had to learn to separate the fish from the bones, however, then it all became much clearer to me. Peace, OHD
|
|
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
|
Post by deyana on Mar 22, 2015 21:29:40 GMT -5
Hi OHD
Well, I'm in two minds about attending church. I attended for years and it did help me in many ways. But it also showed me a side of so called 'Christian' folk that I'd rather forget about. The self-serving, hypocritical side of some. Although not all of course, and not the fault of the preachings of the bible at all. I think some try but fall short. But they are only human in the end after all.
I have known my friend nearly all my life, so we know each other really well. The church she attends is quite something, I really enjoyed being there. Of course I was not long enough there to really get to know the people, but they certainly came across as nice folk. The last time I went to a real swinging Pentecostal church was years ago - it was situated in Louisiana.
I would really have like to have seen you play! I know you are a great guitarist and drummer. A talent indeed. I like to sing, so felt quite at home there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 21:40:51 GMT -5
For me, it comes down to believing a god would not be seen nor heard and interpreted so many different ways by so many. On the one hand,his first commandments indicate an ego. I mean, if we are "children", then a god would make himself known to us all by seeing him/her/it. I just can't buy it all. Recently, the evolution of Christianity in the US has gone to the resurgence of the Christian Reconstruction movement of born again evangelicals which always sells worshiping the rich and not helping the poor. This indicates to me a weak book in the bible for some to interpret it as helping the poor and others as helping the rich. A real powerful god would not be so ambiguous. I hope you're not gauging your overall perception of God, Jesus, and the body of the Christian Church by watching the Religious Entertainment Programs, such as those on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network.) Those shyster televangelists are phony hucksters, pew jumpers, Bible thumpers, and all 'round conniving thieves, on a grand scale, corporate level. They cheat the U.S. Federal government (us taxpayers) out of Billions of dollars by purchasing their "tax-free" status. They prey (not pray) upon the pain inflicted, poor, lonely, sick, and desperate people around the world, and call it "Seed Faith Ministry." Send in your $eed and God will miraculously heal you and return your investment, ten fold, at a bare minimum! The charismatic, sermonizing "preachers" on TBN are consummate actors and crafty, effectively emotive liars. On the whole they are a gargantuan,"For-Profit" corporation, in every sense of the term, and only want to, daily, separate millions of people from their money; people who for one reason or another can't dress to the nines, get out and attend "regular" services at a neighborhood Church, or other brick and mortar Christian congregational building of their own, personal preference. TBN is a true Dynasty worth many Billions of dollars, whose mission is to make themselves and their carefully chosen "Partners" rich beyond reason, with "filthy lucre," per their "Prosperity Doctrine." All the main "characters" are multimillionaires. I could list two dozen, but I don't want to step on any more toes than I have already, .. if I have. evilgrin0010 Am I being judgmental about this? Why, of course I am! I enjoy informally studying human behavior and highly irregular, organized human antics of all sorts. It doesn't pay that much but I have always enjoyed this part-time pursuit or avocation. Peace, OHD That is good advice OHD. For those who are seeking to develop better understanding of their own religion there a a number of sources which are outside of the more popular and apparently self-serving people. One which is quite interesting began in the 1990s with the efforts of Peter Ochs of the University of Virginia and David Ford at Cambridge as the “Scriptural Reasoning Movement. This movement encourages small groups of believers from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to get together and read passages from their sacred texts. The point isn't to disparage or convert but to understand and learn from one another. The model for interactions is hospitality – to be a gracious host when inviting outsiders to comment upon one's own scriptures and an attentive guest when listening to insiders share their sacred text. The following link is in Wikipedia for a short descriptive article which includes a number of links if there is any real interest. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptural_reasoning#Footnotes
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 3:44:00 GMT -5
For me, it comes down to believing a god would not be seen nor heard and interpreted so many different ways by so many. On the one hand,his first commandments indicate an ego. I mean, if we are "children", then a god would make himself known to us all by seeing him/her/it. I just can't buy it all. Recently, the evolution of Christianity in the US has gone to the resurggence of the Christian Reconstruction movement of born again evangelicals which always sells worshiping the rich and not helping the poor. This indicates to me a weak book in the bible for some to interpret it as helping the poor and others as helping the rich. A real powerful god would not be so ambiguous. you are stereotyping hon. what you say is true, in far too many cases, but, not even the majority. i was raised in the foursquare church, but haven't gone to church for years, primarily because i don't believe in rock bands in a church. the church that i grew up in was pretty poor. the pastor was supposed to get twenty-five bucks a week, but it seldom happened. he had to work forty hours a week to support his wife and three kids, and generally had to pay most of the light bill to keep the church going. more times than i could ever count, when we didn't have food, the pastor would go to the store and buy us food. i recently started going to a pentecostal church here, although only a couple of times so far. again, they have a rock band, so i don't care too much about it. i DO like the pastor and the congregation, and the sermons are great. this church has about a hundred people in it, and they have SEVERAL programs to help people. a week or so ago, the pastor drove by a homeless chap with a tent pitched off the road. he went down to burger king and bought several hamburgers, and took them to the lad. all over the country, if someone doesn't have food, you can go to virtually any church, and they will give you food. one time, a few years ago, hazel didn't have $110 for her prescriptions. she went to a church, and they paid for her prescriptions. you cannot lump all churches, christians, in with the few bad apples
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2024 3:20:56 GMT -5
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 3:46:55 GMT -5
For me, it comes down to believing a god would not be seen nor heard and interpreted so many different ways by so many. On the one hand,his first commandments indicate an ego. I mean, if we are "children", then a god would make himself known to us all by seeing him/her/it. I just can't buy it all. Recently, the evolution of Christianity in the US has gone to the resurgence of the Christian Reconstruction movement of born again evangelicals which always sells worshiping the rich and not helping the poor. This indicates to me a weak book in the bible for some to interpret it as helping the poor and others as helping the rich. A real powerful god would not be so ambiguous. I hope you're not gauging your overall perception of God, Jesus, and the body of the Christian Church by watching the Religious Entertainment Programs, such as those on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network.) Those shyster televangelists are phony hucksters, pew jumpers, Bible thumpers, and all 'round conniving thieves, on a grand scale, corporate level. They cheat the U.S. Federal government (us taxpayers) out of Billions of dollars by purchasing their "tax-free" status. They prey (not pray) upon the pain inflicted, poor, lonely, sick, and desperate people around the world, and call it "Seed Faith Ministry." Send in your $eed and God will miraculously heal you and return your investment, ten fold, at a bare minimum! The charismatic, sermonizing "preachers" on TBN are consummate actors and crafty, effectively emotive liars. On the whole they are a gargantuan,"For-Profit" corporation, in every sense of the term, and only want to, daily, separate millions of people from their money; people who for one reason or another can't dress to the nines, get out and attend "regular" services at a neighborhood Church, or other brick and mortar Christian congregational building of their own, personal preference. TBN is a true Dynasty worth many Billions of dollars, whose mission is to make themselves and their carefully chosen "Partners" rich beyond reason, with "filthy lucre," per their "Prosperity Doctrine." All the main "characters" are multimillionaires. I could list two dozen, but I don't want to step on any more toes than I have already, .. if I have. evilgrin0010 Am I being judgmental about this? Why, of course I am! I enjoy informally studying human behavior and highly irregular, organized human antics of all sorts. It doesn't pay that much but I have always enjoyed this part-time pursuit or avocation. Peace, OHD there's a clown on tv here, thankfully only at 2am on sunday morning, that spends an entire hour "preaching" about nothing but "assignments". your assignment is to send him fifty bucks. i can't believe that the fool is still on
|
|