Date Joined: Dec 24, 2023 11:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by Belle on Jul 24, 2024 22:54:04 GMT -5
I have read the Bible and find it credible. I believe it makes sense, and I believe the testimonies of the authors. That is why I believe it. Against the advice of other Christians, I looked into other belief systems and read more writing of the early church than I can remember, as well as gnostic texts. The Bible is the only thing that fits. If that is your conclusion, that is fine, but there is a problem with it. God is greater than that power, so He is still allowing it to go on, and it is for a reason. God created Lucifer knowing what he would do. That is fine but your belief in it does not make it true. People believe all kinds of things that are not true. Interesting that you investigated gnostic texts. My theology has incorporated many of their ideas. Yes, I do believe it is for a reason that God allows it although I am still trying to fully understand why. Maybe this will help you understand. Why wickedness Continues
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Date Joined: Sept 16, 2012 13:59:47 GMT -5
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Post by sauerkraut on Jul 25, 2024 9:44:15 GMT -5
Here in Oklahoma they now require public schools teach the Bible as it relates to our own nations history, we were founded on the Christian Bible and our founders were religious so the Bibel is now supposed to part of our history.
The schools are having a hissy fit over that, But I bet if the requirement was to mandate rainbow books and transgender education I bet the public schools would jump on that with glee, even though that has no place in our history or education.
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Date Joined: Jun 30, 2024 20:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by naz on Jul 25, 2024 12:09:16 GMT -5
That is fine but your belief in it does not make it true. People believe all kinds of things that are not true. Interesting that you investigated gnostic texts. My theology has incorporated many of their ideas. Yes, I do believe it is for a reason that God allows it although I am still trying to fully understand why. Maybe this will help you understand. Why wickedness ContinuesNot really but thanks anyway
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Date Joined: Jun 30, 2024 20:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by naz on Jul 25, 2024 12:10:12 GMT -5
Here in Oklahoma they now require public schools teach the Bible as it relates to our own nations history, we were founded on the Christian Bible and our founders were religious so the Bibel is now supposed to part of our history. The schools are having a hissy fit over that, But I bet if the requirement was to mandate rainbow books and transgender education I bet the public schools would jump on that with glee, even though that has no place in our history or education. Neither should be mandated.
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Date Joined: May 17, 2024 11:33:42 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. JMA23 on Jul 25, 2024 16:31:39 GMT -5
Christianity is a big part of our history. Nothing wrong with that being taught in schools. One nation under God and all that. 👍
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Date Joined: Dec 24, 2023 11:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by Belle on Jul 25, 2024 23:38:41 GMT -5
Not really but thanks anyway Ok, I'll put it in my own words & see if I can explain it better. The devil challenged God's sovereignty, telling Eve they could rule themselves, not needing God. He could have destroyed Satan at that time, but there were others there that heard it all. Angels besides Adam & Eve. He had to prove the devil to be the liar & prove to them & mankind that they can NOT govern/rule themselves. We can surely see this to be true. The world is in total chaos, getting worse as time passes & MAN has no clue how to fix it. If we understand this,.. we can understand why God has allowed wickedness to continue.
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Date Joined: Sept 16, 2012 13:59:47 GMT -5
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Post by sauerkraut on Jul 26, 2024 9:25:27 GMT -5
The reason for evil & wickedness is God gave man free choice he (man) can love one another or kill one another, God wants man to have free choice and he wants man to freely choose to follow him, and not be forced to.
I understand in the Garden of Eden the 'snake' told Adam & Eve if they ate of the forbidding fruit they would be just like God and God didn't want that, so I guess Adam & Eve liked that idea or lie that the snake told them, so they tried it. No one is really sure what the fruit was most assume it was an apple, but actually the whole reason for banning them from eating from that tree God was testing Adam & Eve to see if they would obey him. The tree of Good & Evil.
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Date Joined: Dec 24, 2023 11:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by Belle on Jul 26, 2024 12:52:28 GMT -5
The reason for evil & wickedness is God gave man free choice he (man) can love one another or kill one another, God wants man to have free choice and he wants man to freely choose to follow him, and not be forced to.I understand in the Garden of Eden the 'snake' told Adam & Eve if they ate of the forbidding fruit they would be just like God and God didn't want that, so I guess Adam & Eve liked that idea or lie that the snake told them, so they tried it. No one is really sure what the fruit was most assume it was an apple, but actually *the whole reason for banning them from eating from that tree God was testing Adam & Eve to see if they would obey him. The tree of Good & Evil. Exactly right, sauerkraut! We can see from how we've handled things on our own, we're not capable of governing ourselves. *It was a test of his sovereignty.
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Date Joined: Jun 30, 2024 20:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by naz on Jul 26, 2024 13:57:46 GMT -5
Not really but thanks anyway Ok, I'll put it in my own words & see if I can explain it better. The devil challenged God's sovereignty, telling Eve they could rule themselves, not needing God. He could have destroyed Satan at that time, but there were others there that heard it all. Angels besides Adam & Eve. He had to prove the devil to be the liar & prove to them & mankind that they can NOT govern/rule themselves. We can surely see this to be true. The world is in total chaos, getting worse as time passes & MAN has no clue how to fix it. If we understand this,.. we can understand why God has allowed wickedness to continue. OK, thanks again. It is not a matter of understanding but of disagreeing. I don't take the creation account in Genesis as literal history. And I agree with the gnostic interpretation of that myth which is quite different.
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Date Joined: Dec 24, 2023 11:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by Belle on Jul 26, 2024 19:15:24 GMT -5
Ok, I'll put it in my own words & see if I can explain it better. The devil challenged God's sovereignty, telling Eve they could rule themselves, not needing God. He could have destroyed Satan at that time, but there were others there that heard it all. Angels besides Adam & Eve. He had to prove the devil to be the liar & prove to them & mankind that they can NOT govern/rule themselves. We can surely see this to be true. The world is in total chaos, getting worse as time passes & MAN has no clue how to fix it. If we understand this,.. we can understand why God has allowed wickedness to continue. OK, thanks again. It is not a matter of understanding but of disagreeing. I don't take the creation account in Genesis as literal history. And I agree with the gnostic interpretation of that myth which is quite different. Oh OK,...I wasn't aware of that. Fair enough.
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Date Joined: Sept 16, 2012 13:59:47 GMT -5
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Post by sauerkraut on Jul 27, 2024 11:03:31 GMT -5
Some people say the 'big bang' is not religious- but actually it could of been God that started the big bang and got the ball rolling.
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Jul 28, 2024 2:40:17 GMT -5
John , Thanks for your reply. I am a believer, Baptist, although my faith somewhat weak. Holy Spirit or whatever I believe I have my answer. I never thought too much about end times especially after becoming an adult, I expect to die. I suppose it was all that Left Behind hype that was going on when the books came out that I started seeking an answer. I knew there was a pretribulation, mid tribulation and post tribulation raptures beliefs. I am also familiar with the preterist belief. In my being, I cannot believe in a pretribulation rapture. Nothing since has made me change my mind. I from time to time will listen to someone speak on why they do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. One is a short video by Dr. Chuck Betters that is very good. Several others I have watched. All for now. I told you that I would seek for an answer about the rapture. I will again acknowledge that I came into this biased in favor of a pre-tribulation rapture, and when the Spirit speaks to me, it is not normally with a loud voice, but in a very quiet way. I believe I know the answer, but because of my biases, I cannot be 100 percent sure they didn't cloud things. I am convinced there is indeed a pre-tribulation rapture, and I will give you the main reasons. This is not something I feel like is a salvation issue and it is not something I would get into a heated argument over, but here are my reasons for why I believe in the rapture. 1. The Bible speaks of a restrainer holding back the Anti-Christ. This is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10. There are two common beliefs as to who the restrainer is. That is the Holy Ghost and the Church. I believe that it is both. God is not going to allow these events to happen until His timing and the church is hindering the Anti-Christ because we know what is coming and are looking for it. We are also openly opposing it. We understand about a one world government, the mark of the beast and we will recognize the Anti-Christ based on things we have read in Bible prophecy. I believe that it will be necessary to remove the committed Christians before these events can take place. If the restrainer is just the Holy spirit, and He will be taken out of the way, would God leave his church alone? I do not think so. 2. The Bible says Jesus will come as a thief in the night. That is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4. That would not be true if we are speaking of the last days of the Tribulation because we know that the Anti-Christ sets himself up in the Jewish temple as God 3 1/2 years into the tribulation. From that day forward, we would know Jesus is coming 3 1/2 years later. No mystery there. 3. The Bible indicates people just going about their business, marrying and giving in marriage, at the time when Jesus comes. At the time of the 2nd coming, we will be at the end of the worst period of human history, the Great Tribulation period. That will be anything but normal conditions. One thing I disagree with many in the Christian church over is who is going in the rapture. We agree that only those who are born again Christians will go, but I also believe that there will be many Christians left behind. That explains those who we see during the tribulation period. I also expect some people will realize what is going on, and will get saved during this period of time, but will likely wind up being martyred if they want to be saved. If they take the mark of the beast, they will be doomed to hell, but if they don't, they cannot buy or sell. We are told to watch and pray always that we will be accounted worthy to escape these things. If that is not the rapture, the only alternative is people are praying to die before the tribulation period. The lukewarm church will be left behind with the sinners, but with the committed and on fire Christians being taken, they will not have the ability to hold back the evil. Whether you agree with my conclusions or not, the main thing is keep your faith in Jesus and live for Him.
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Date Joined: Jul 30, 2023 18:58:37 GMT -5
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Post by snapper on Jul 29, 2024 11:12:26 GMT -5
John, Thanks for the info on pre tribulation. Only thing I have to say at this time is if I did believe in a pre tribulation rapture, I don’t think I could believe some Christians would be taken and some would be left behind. You did explain why you believe it. Thanks again!
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Date Joined: Jun 7, 2010 10:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by deyana on Aug 2, 2024 21:39:12 GMT -5
I wonder how long before John, comes back.?
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Date Joined: Oct 26, 2021 18:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by 💥Rusty on Aug 2, 2024 22:52:27 GMT -5
I wonder how long before John , comes back.? Truck drivers spend quite a bit of time on the road. Not an easy job. We're both brothers in Christ but I take a more quiet approach. He's right in 99% of what he says. Hopefully some here will see he cares because I KNOW he does
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Date Joined: Oct 26, 2021 18:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by 💥Rusty on Aug 2, 2024 22:53:10 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents
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Date Joined: May 20, 2022 16:28:37 GMT -5
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Post by apple on Aug 2, 2024 23:48:25 GMT -5
I wonder how long before John , comes back.? Truck drivers spend quite a bit of time on the road. Not an easy job. We're both brothers in Christ but I take a more quiet approach. He's right in 99% of what he says. Hopefully some here will see he cares because I KNOW he does Do you believe God created woman to be a helper to man, and to be inferior to him right from the start? Genesis 3:16 says flatly that a woman’s husband shall rule over her.
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2024 0:45:16 GMT -5
I wonder how long before John , comes back.? Thank you for caring. You have no idea how busy I am. Between driving 3000 plus miles a week, I had to take my wife for a procedure this week and then try to make up for the lost sleep, so I was safe on the road. I spend many hours updating my radio station each week and corresponding with record promoters. I am busy with YouTube, and church. I was supposed to help them clean up a back room this week but after I got there, I found out they are doing it next Saturday instead. I wanted to stop by to see what has been happening, and I will try to stop by as much as I can.
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2024 0:49:41 GMT -5
I wonder how long before John , comes back.? Truck drivers spend quite a bit of time on the road. Not an easy job. We're both brothers in Christ but I take a more quiet approach. He's right in 99% of what he says. Hopefully some here will see he cares because I KNOW he does Thanks. I really appreciate that. Yes, I do care. Life would be easier if I didn't. I am sure you understand that.
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Aug 4, 2024 0:50:48 GMT -5
Truck drivers spend quite a bit of time on the road. Not an easy job. We're both brothers in Christ but I take a more quiet approach. He's right in 99% of what he says. Hopefully some here will see he cares because I KNOW he does Do you believe God created woman to be a helper to man, and to be inferior to him right from the start? Genesis 3:16 says flatly that a woman’s husband shall rule over her. That is what it says. I am glad you are reading your Bible. Keep it up.
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