Date Joined: Jan 17, 2024 18:56:17 GMT -5
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Post by Justice-4-All on Jul 7, 2024 17:55:27 GMT -5
Well the whole idea is quite silly. T he marriage would really not mean anything. But then most marriages don't anyway.Sounds like a diss. As if you know about "most marriages". Again, divorce rates pretty much sum up most marriages. Care to look that rate up?
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Date Joined: Jun 20, 2024 13:47:15 GMT -5
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Post by fuzzems on Jul 7, 2024 17:55:32 GMT -5
Who the heck are you to think anyone cares what you think about spiritual matters when you have admitted you are not a Christian, or at least your alias did. You come across more like a Luciferian. I suppose that is making a judgment about you, but you have been making judgements about us. If something has changed, and you have had a come to Jesus moment, let me know. If you have, perhaps we can have a Bible study and examine exactly what the New Testament does teach when it comes to things like how we treat others, sin, homosexuality, even murder of babies. Apparently, I'm your worst nightmare, I've read and understood the Bible. Lol. Okie dokie. I am sure you read all 900+ pages immediately after i posted the Project 2025 link too! LMAO!
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 17:55:41 GMT -5
I do not believe you have any understanding of anything spiritual. You have admitted you are not a Christian and distanced yourself from the title of Christian. There are only two sides, servants of God and servants of the devil, which means you are serving Satan. Even rock singer Bob Dylin understood that. Jesus taught us to give alms, not seek government to help others. Jesus taught us not to condemn, but he also taught us to go and sin no more. Jesus taught us that those who continue to live in a sinful lifestyle will be cast into hell. The Apostle Paul made it clear that those who are effeminate will have no inheritance in the Kingdom of God. I do not generally listen to servants of the devil like you when they give spiritual advise, and I do recognize that your master does like to toss scripture around to deceive people. He can quote it, but even so, I will give you a chance. Step up to the podium and tell us all in what area we are being hypocritical. Share with us your brilliant insight into where Jesus told anyone to celebrate sin or where he condoned a sinful lifestyle. Show us how you can make the leap and think Jesus would condone liberal policies that you do like gay marriage and the murder of unborn children. Tell us oh spiritual Sprocket. Enlighten us with your brilliant light oh bearer of light. Knowing how to say the words is a far cry from understanding their meanings. It is true I do not consider myself Christian. I have equally said, since you like to record my words, that Christianity is the closest religion to my understanding of the Bible. However, since you're putting Christianity out there as the only way to the father, show me where Christianity is declared as the only religion in the Bible. Certainly. Acts 4:12, speaking of Jesus, and you can look it up,"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Without faith in Jesus, you cannot be saved because he is the one that paid the penalty for our sins to reconcile us to God the Father.
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Date Joined: Jun 20, 2024 13:47:15 GMT -5
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Post by fuzzems on Jul 7, 2024 17:57:38 GMT -5
Sounds like a diss. As if you know about "most marriages". Again, divorce rates pretty much sum up most marriages. Care to look that rate up? Actually the divorce rates are much higher for second , third marriages. But, even if 90% divorced, what would that prove?
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Date Joined: Jan 17, 2024 18:56:17 GMT -5
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Post by Justice-4-All on Jul 7, 2024 17:58:17 GMT -5
Knowing how to say the words is a far cry from understanding their meanings. It is true I do not consider myself Christian. I have equally said, since you like to record my words, that Christianity is the closest religion to my understanding of the Bible. However, since you're putting Christianity out there as the only way to the father, show me where Christianity is declared as the only religion in the Bible. Certainly. Acts 4:12, speaking of Jesus, and you can look it up,"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Without faith in Jesus, you cannot be saved because he is the one that paid the penalty for our sins to reconcile us to God the Father. No, I don't see the word Christianity, do you? Are you going to pretend Christianity is the only religion to believe in Jesus?
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 17:59:15 GMT -5
Who the heck are you to think anyone cares what you think about spiritual matters when you have admitted you are not a Christian, or at least your alias did. You come across more like a Luciferian. I suppose that is making a judgment about you, but you have been making judgements about us. If something has changed, and you have had a come to Jesus moment, let me know. If you have, perhaps we can have a Bible study and examine exactly what the New Testament does teach when it comes to things like how we treat others, sin, homosexuality, even murder of babies. Apparently, I'm your worst nightmare, I've read and understood the Bible. If you truly understand the Bible, you are intentionally twisting it because what you post does not agree with it. The devil understands scripture too. By the way, I know you don't know your Bible, or you wouldn't have asked me that question about where it says Christ is the only way to be saved. You should have known that. That is the milk of the Word. I don't consider a person who knows their Bible my worst nightmare. I love a challenge, but I haven't seen any evidence you know or understand the scriptures thus far.
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Post by Justice-4-All on Jul 7, 2024 17:59:32 GMT -5
Again, divorce rates pretty much sum up most marriages. Care to look that rate up? Actually the divorce rates are much higher for second , third marriages. But, even if 90% divorced, what would that prove? I agree, but they're still pretty dang high. There's a lot of people not seeing the importance.
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Date Joined: Jun 30, 2024 20:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by naz on Jul 7, 2024 18:01:04 GMT -5
foxy , John , here is something I wrote around the time of the last election. I still fully agree with it even if I have not myself fully or faithfully observed it... Biblical Guidelines for Christians regarding Political MattersWe live in a time of deep division within our country. The divisions fracture along many lines—political, racial, ethnic, and even religious. They tear families apart and strain and break even strong friendships. And sadly, they even create deep fault lines within the Body of Christ. They lead to ugly name calling and insulting mischaracterizations of opposing parties. What can we as Christians do about this situation? What should we do about this as Christians? The Bible gives us guidance in this matter as it does all others. It should be the starting point and guiding light in approaching this problem from a scriptural perspective. As members of a diverse body of believers there will of course always be differences of opinion among us this side of eternity. If we cannot fully agree on theological matters, likewise we can’t expect to always see eye to eye on political concerns. But what we can do is respect our differences and not denigrate and demean one another over them. Demonizing our brothers and sisters in Christ who think differently from us is clearly against the commandments found in Scripture. We are called to love one another and to be one in the spirit, to not be contentious, and to not split into warring factions. We are called upon to put aside all malice and strife. This applies just as much to the political arena as it does to any other. As Christians we must recognize that God is our final authority and supreme leader. Although we are called upon to obey political rulers we are also called upon to defy them if they demand that we go against God's commandments. Our allegiance is to God first and political leaders second. That is our proper perspective. We should not therefore unduly elevate any political leader to a status higher than God nor make allegiance to that leader or political party some kind of litmus test for determining who is a true Christian and who is not. As Christians we should be committed to truthfulness in all our affairs. After all, we worship a God who is Truth. Therefore, in the political realm we should strive for truthfulness and accuracy and endeavor to not be persuaded by any false information perpetrated by political leaders or political campaigns. We should hold all our political leaders to the same standard of truthfulness and be willing to admit and declare when they are not telling the truth. Likewise, we should hold all political leaders to the same moral standards we would impose on any of them. If such a leader exhibits a moral failing, we are wrong to criticize them if at the same time we give a free pass to do this exact same thing to a political leader we happened to favor. That is hypocrisy and should not be practiced by Christians. Jesus and the Apostles lived under one of the most oppressive political regimes in history—the Roman Empire. Some people living in Israel at that time paid up to 90% of their income in taxes. The early Christians faced intense persecution and many were put to death by the Roman government. Despite this fact no mention is ever made in the Scriptures of encouraging believers to overthrow or even attempt to change the political situation. Rather we are told to obey our leaders and pray for them. We should recognize that Jesus taught us that his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus made no attempt to change the political system existing during his earthly life. Jesus took no sides in the political debates of his day. For example, when questioned about paying taxes to Caesar his answer given did not favor one side or the other in that debate. We are called to share the gospel with those who are open to it, not force our views on others. To change hearts, not reform societies. This is not to say we should not express our opinions or vote for leaders who best represent our values. We should be a moral influence in the societies in which we live. We should be a light in a world of darkness. We should stand firm for what is right and good and boldly stand against evil wherever we see it. But we must never conflate the kingdom of God with any kingdom of this world. We must never confuse the spiritual teachings of Christ with some form of political philosophy. We should recognize that God does not favor our nation over others but rather loves people of all ethnicities and nationalities and wishes to bless them all equally. This is our calling, our sacred duty, as members of the Body of Christ.
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Post by fuzzems on Jul 7, 2024 18:01:08 GMT -5
Actually the divorce rates are much higher for second , third marriages. But, even if 90% divorced, what would that prove? I agree, but they're still pretty dang high. There's a lot of people not seeing the importance. And?
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 18:01:36 GMT -5
Certainly. Acts 4:12, speaking of Jesus, and you can look it up,"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Without faith in Jesus, you cannot be saved because he is the one that paid the penalty for our sins to reconcile us to God the Father. No, I don't see the word Christianity, do you? Are you going to pretend Christianity is the only religion to believe in Jesus? The word Christian means follower of Christ. You cannot be saved unless you believe on him and follow him. I don't care what name you go by on your church. If you believe in Jesus and follow him, you can be saved. To run from the title of Christian is to distance yourself from Christ, not just his church. In addition, if you are not part of his church, you are not part of his body, so you cannot be saved.
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Post by naz on Jul 7, 2024 18:06:09 GMT -5
No, I don't see the word Christianity, do you? Are you going to pretend Christianity is the only religion to believe in Jesus? The word Christian means follower of Christ. You cannot be saved unless you believe on him and follow him. I don't care what name you go by on your church. If you believe in Jesus and follow him, you can be saved. To run from the title of Christian is to distance yourself from Christ, not just his church. In addition, if you are not part of his church, you are not part of his body, so you cannot be saved. I totally agree John, but there was a time when I was so disappointed and disgusted by my fellow believers I also disavowed the title Christian. I did not want to be associated with their hateful and hypocritical behavior.
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Post by Justice-4-All on Jul 7, 2024 18:06:18 GMT -5
Apparently, I'm your worst nightmare, I've read and understood the Bible. If you truly understand the Bible, you are intentionally twisting it because what you post does not agree with it. The devil understands scripture too. By the way, I know you don't know your Bible, or you wouldn't have asked me that question about where it says Christ is the only way to be saved. You should have known that. That is the milk of the Word. I don't consider a person who knows their Bible my worst nightmare. I love a challenge, but I haven't seen any evidence you know or understand the scriptures thus far. Talk about twist, I didn't say Christ and you know it. Now you attempt to mislead using his word. Could that be the work of the Devil? The Bible mentions the 7 churches of Asia. Among them, Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos (a.k.a. Pergamum or Pergamon), Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. Which one is Christianity?
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Post by Justice-4-All on Jul 7, 2024 18:13:31 GMT -5
I agree, but they're still pretty dang high. There's a lot of people not seeing the importance. And? And I believe the claim was most people believe marriage. I was pointing out that wasn't accurate. As a simple statement of fact, divorce rates are like 4 to 5 times greater than abortion rates. Talk about an oxymoron.
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Date Joined: May 29, 2020 20:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 18:16:35 GMT -5
foxy , John , here is something I wrote around the time of the last election. I still fully agree with it even if I have not myself fully or faithfully observed it... Biblical Guidelines for Christians regarding Political MattersWe live in a time of deep division within our country. The divisions fracture along many lines—political, racial, ethnic, and even religious. They tear families apart and strain and break even strong friendships. And sadly, they even create deep fault lines within the Body of Christ. They lead to ugly name calling and insulting mischaracterizations of opposing parties. What can we as Christians do about this situation? What should we do about this as Christians? The Bible gives us guidance in this matter as it does all others. It should be the starting point and guiding light in approaching this problem from a scriptural perspective. As members of a diverse body of believers there will of course always be differences of opinion among us this side of eternity. If we cannot fully agree on theological matters, likewise we can’t expect to always see eye to eye on political concerns. But what we can do is respect our differences and not denigrate and demean one another over them. Demonizing our brothers and sisters in Christ who think differently from us is clearly against the commandments found in Scripture. We are called to love one another and to be one in the spirit, to not be contentious, and to not split into warring factions. We are called upon to put aside all malice and strife. This applies just as much to the political arena as it does to any other. As Christians we must recognize that God is our final authority and supreme leader. Although we are called upon to obey political rulers we are also called upon to defy them if they demand that we go against God's commandments. Our allegiance is to God first and political leaders second. That is our proper perspective. We should not therefore unduly elevate any political leader to a status higher than God nor make allegiance to that leader or political party some kind of litmus test for determining who is a true Christian and who is not. As Christians we should be committed to truthfulness in all our affairs. After all, we worship a God who is Truth. Therefore, in the political realm we should strive for truthfulness and accuracy and endeavor to not be persuaded by any false information perpetrated by political leaders or political campaigns. We should hold all our political leaders to the same standard of truthfulness and be willing to admit and declare when they are not telling the truth. Likewise, we should hold all political leaders to the same moral standards we would impose on any of them. If such a leader exhibits a moral failing, we are wrong to criticize them if at the same time we give a free pass to do this exact same thing to a political leader we happened to favor. That is hypocrisy and should not be practiced by Christians. Jesus and the Apostles lived under one of the most oppressive political regimes in history—the Roman Empire. Some people living in Israel at that time paid up to 90% of their income in taxes. The early Christians faced intense persecution and many were put to death by the Roman government. Despite this fact no mention is ever made in the Scriptures of encouraging believers to overthrow or even attempt to change the political situation. Rather we are told to obey our leaders and pray for them. We should recognize that Jesus taught us that his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus made no attempt to change the political system existing during his earthly life. Jesus took no sides in the political debates of his day. For example, when questioned about paying taxes to Caesar his answer given did not favor one side or the other in that debate. We are called to share the gospel with those who are open to it, not force our views on others. To change hearts, not reform societies. This is not to say we should not express our opinions or vote for leaders who best represent our values. We should be a moral influence in the societies in which we live. We should be a light in a world of darkness. We should stand firm for what is right and good and boldly stand against evil wherever we see it. But we must never conflate the kingdom of God with any kingdom of this world. We must never confuse the spiritual teachings of Christ with some form of political philosophy. We should recognize that God does not favor our nation over others but rather loves people of all ethnicities and nationalities and wishes to bless them all equally. This is our calling, our sacred duty, as members of the Body of Christ. You said you posted that and believe it. Does that mean you are a professing Christian? I accept that you said you don't always practice this, and the best Christians are subject to doing things at times they know are not right because we are human, so I am not looking to condemn you for not always doing this. We aren't really supposed to be speaking evil of those in authority if we are completely honest, whether it be Trump when he was President or Biden now. We can speak against things they do that are wrong, but we are not supposed to be insulting them personally. Some of the criticisms about Biden have gotten to the point where I have opted out because people are making fun of his illness. I have known people personally with Dementia, and it is no laughing matter. Regarding being honest about our leaders, anyone being honest knows Bill Clinton was every bit as corrupt as Donald Trump, and that Clinton continued his bad behavior in the White House. Hillary helped cover it up for him, and helped destroy the women who were victims. We know the Bidens are not honest and we know Joe Biden has made racist comments. He is the one that said that Obama was a different kind of black candidate because he is clean and articulate. Who says something like that if they are not racist? I recognize Trump's moral failures with women before running for President, but I saw no evidence it continued in the White House. I know that the vast majority of charges against Trump are phony, like all those silly charges in Georgia, most being over things he said in a single phone call. Ronald Reagan is one of my favorite Presidents, but I don't believe he was 100 percent truthful all the time, and I don't fully trust any politician. I vote issues because that is what affects me. When it comes to moral failures, I have no idea what they do in private and how much is made up. Look at John Edwards. People thought he had a perfect marriage and he was running around on his sick wife. I see Trump and Biden as both flawed, but I support Trump on the issues.
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 18:21:11 GMT -5
If you truly understand the Bible, you are intentionally twisting it because what you post does not agree with it. The devil understands scripture too. By the way, I know you don't know your Bible, or you wouldn't have asked me that question about where it says Christ is the only way to be saved. You should have known that. That is the milk of the Word. I don't consider a person who knows their Bible my worst nightmare. I love a challenge, but I haven't seen any evidence you know or understand the scriptures thus far. Talk about twist, I didn't say Christ and you know it. Now you attempt to mislead using his word. Could that be the work of the Devil? The Bible mentions the 7 churches of Asia. Among them, Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos (a.k.a. Pergamum or Pergamon), Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. Which one is Christianity? All 7 were Christian churches, but all 7 had things Jesus wanted to address. He lifted them up when they were doing right and rebuked them when they were doing wrong and gave them strong warnings. I am going to just ask you point blank Sprocket. Are you a born-again Christian? I will take you at your word. You ran from the title once. Do you believe on, and do you follow Jesus Christ? Do you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God? Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross and rose from the dead? Did you repent of your sins and accept him as your Lord and Savior? Heaven, forbid I misrepresent who you are.
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Post by fuzzems on Jul 7, 2024 18:24:25 GMT -5
Sounds like a diss. As if you know about "most marriages". Again, divorce rates pretty much sum up most marriages. Care to look that rate up? No , not really. Marriages can fail for a lot reasons. Diet and exercise often fails too. Should that be tossed out?
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 18:25:05 GMT -5
And I believe the claim was most people believe marriage. I was pointing out that wasn't accurate. As a simple statement of fact, divorce rates are like 4 to 5 times greater than abortion rates. Talk about an oxymoron. They are two separate issues. First of all, divorce itself breaks God's heart, but it is only when a second marriage occurs it becomes a sin. Secondly, adultery is a serious sin, but all those involved are consenting. In the case of abortion, the child isn't given a choice of whether it is allowed to live or die. That little boy or girl is just ripped apart. Adultery is a sin issue, but I am not sure if it should be criminalized. Abortion is a sin issue, but it is also a crime against humanity and should be criminalized. If I commit adultery with my neighbor, that is wrong in the sight of God, but it is not a crime. If I kill my neighbor, I go to prison or face the death penalty. Even Jesus said there are some laws that are weightier than others.
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Post by fuzzems on Jul 7, 2024 18:26:50 GMT -5
And I believe the claim was most people believe marriage. I was pointing out that wasn't accurate. As a simple statement of fact, divorce rates are like 4 to 5 times greater than abortion rates. Talk about an oxymoron. They are two separate issues. First of all, divorce itself breaks God's heart, but it is only when a second marriage occurs it becomes a sin. Secondly, adultery is a serious sin, but all those involved are consenting. In the case of abortion, the child isn't given a choice of whether it is allowed to live or die. That little boy or girl is just ripped apart. Adultery is a sin issue, but I am not sure if it should be criminalized. Abortion is a sin issue, but it is also a crime against humanity and should be criminalized. If I commit adultery with my neighbor, that is wrong in the sight of God, but it is not a crime. If I kill my neighbor, I go to prison or face the death penalty. Even Jesus said there are some laws that are weightier than others. I thought we moved to talking about marriage but he likes to yell "squirrel" in the middle of a conversation to deflect.
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Post by foxy on Jul 7, 2024 19:07:36 GMT -5
Here's where it gets dicey regarding Christ and politics returning to my OP.
Jesus did not set up His Kingdom on Earth. That is in the future. Until that time, Christians live in a self imposed Theocracy putting God's laws above man's laws in their own lives whenever the two conflict. Additionally, those of us who are Americans live in a Constitutional Republic. Our Christian founders gave us a country where freedom of (not from) religion is one of our core principals.
The "Great Commission" to the followers of Christ was not to go forth and conquer/convert by the sword or torture and burn the "heretics." As far as Scripture goes, the days of a Theocracy ended when God's people demanded kings and judges to rule over them as the pagan nations did. Just as in those days, the world has had both good and bad rulers. As mankind moves farther away from God, their desire for "Godly rulers" becomes totally unimportant and even an impediment to "enlightened" progress to a new world order.
I understand completely when believers get frustrated with anti-Biblical laws and leadership and the growing multitudes who empower them. But is today any different than times past when the secular world did what was right in their own sight and suffered the consequences as hedonism and immorality ruined civilization after civilization?
True followers of Christ share the Gospel, in fact that's what (as John mentioned earlier) the "salt of the Earth" are commissioned to do, but it is God's choice to give mankind free will. It is not for us to impose sharia type rule mandating strict obedience to the Scripture or punishment even unto death by those in control of the nation as occurs in some parts of our world.
The Gospel means Good News. For those who have been bludgeoned with it like a sledgehammer, they can't conceive of how it is anything to be desired. If the love and compassion of Jesus is overshadowed by Pharisitic condemnation, then we do more harm than good. We have to be good news in order to gain the trust of those we want to share the good news with.
To be clear, I'm not saying we should partake of the sins of the world or condone them, we are in the world, but not of it, but we need to understand God has a plan. He has chosen to allow each person to choose to embrace or reject His laws. As His followers we live and vote our conscience as the Holy Spirit moves us. Sometimes we rejoice, other times we are dismayed by the outcome of elections. The believers are not going to like the direction the world is heading, but God is ultimately in control. What is written will come to pass.
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2024 19:27:56 GMT -5
Here's where it gets dicey regarding Christ and politics returning to my OP. Jesus did not set up His Kingdom on Earth. That is in the future. Until that time, Christians live in a self imposed Theocracy putting God's laws above man's laws in their own lives whenever the two conflict. Additionally, those of us who are Americans live in a Constitutional Republic. Our Christian founders gave us a country where freedom of (not from) religion is one of our core principals. The "Great Commission" to the followers of Christ was not to go forth and conquer/convert by the sword or torture and burn the "heretics." As far as Scripture goes, the days of a Theocracy ended when God's people demanded kings and judges to rule over them as the pagan nations did. Just as in those days, the world has had both good and bad rulers. As mankind moves farther away from God, their desire for "Godly rulers" becomes totally unimportant and even an impediment to "enlightened" progress to a new world order. I understand completely when believers get frustrated with anti-Biblical laws and leadership and the growing multitudes who empower them. But is today any different than times past when the secular world did what was right in their own sight and suffered the consequences as hedonism and immorality ruined civilization after civilization? True followers of Christ share the Gospel, in fact that's what (as John mentioned earlier) the "salt of the Earth" are commissioned to do, but it is God's choice to give mankind free will. It is not for us to impose sharia type rule mandating strict obedience to the Scripture or punishment even unto death by those in control of the nation as occurs in some parts of our world. The Gospel means Good News. For those who have been bludgeoned with it like a sledgehammer, they can't conceive of how it is anything to be desired. If the love and compassion of Jesus is overshadowed by Pharisitic condemnation, then we do more harm than good. We have to be good news in order to gain the trust of those we want to share the good news with. To be clear, I'm not saying we should partake of the sins of the world or condone them, we are in the world, but not of it, but we need to understand God has a plan. He has chosen to allow each person to choose to embrace or reject His laws. As His followers we live and vote our conscience as the Holy Spirit moves us. Sometimes we rejoice, other times we are dismayed by the outcome of elections. The believers are not going to like the direction the world is heading, but God is ultimately in control. What is written will come to pass. That is a well thought out post. Different nations have different forms of government, but government itself is from God. My feeling is that God uses the good and evil to bring us from Genesis to Revelation. In a supposedly free country like America, we vote for our leaders, so in order for God's choice to win, I believe he allows conditions to come about that his choice is the choice of the voters. In 2020, I believe he allowed the steal, but Biden couldn't have been installed if God had not allowed it, and He has his reasons. Whoever wins ultimately could not have come to power if it was not God's will. As such, there are things taking place that will influence whether the next President is Trump or Biden or someone else. I have made it clear that I plan to vote for Trump, but whether he wins or not is out of my control, and whether or not the votes will be more secure is out of my control. Things will only be made completely right when Jesus sets up His Kingdom, but for now, Christians need to stand up for things that advance God's standards to the best of our ability. The devil's crowd will stand up for the Democrats.
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